Nov 13, 2013 9:05 PM

Haven't got the truth out of them yet although I have not asked them either. They seem to be enjoying get paid twice the amount stated on their BoE :D

We have to ask.....so they can tell us, but will they tell us ? :D that is THEIR call, not mine :P

pushes the point of honor/dishonor upon them while remaining honorable. questions negate surety.

Just received an invoice from my waste disposal company with a remittance advice section attached to the bottom...

"Remittance advice is notice that a sum of money has been sent..."

My initial thoughts are that if they have sent the sum of money the "advice" then I just need to accept it, authorise it and send it back... Am I right in saying so? I haven't looked into remittance much...

You have a waiste disposal company ? :/

Sorry, the company that disposes of my waste each week... :)

Are they doing this for YOU, or for the person you happen to have in your pocket ? :D

Well a person doesn't put the bin out each week, but I'm obviously not the person on the invoice... :D

So now, that PUBLIC DEBT has been sent to the person, that gives you two choices

1). You buy it back, and PAY for it.

2). You administrate the debt.

It's more the remittance I'm asking about though Pete... Can I buy it back and pay with the remittance advice?

no

That "remittance", you have in your hand, is the instrument that you will use if ever you decide to ADMINISTRATE that PUBLIC debt.

Now, you may start by ASKING for "remittance advices" to that waste disposal company.

You may tell them that you would like to complete correctly this "remittance" for complete discharge through the surety/security of the PERSON that you happen to haVE IN YOUR POCKET, TO WHOM THIS PUBLIC DEBT WAS SENT TO :)

It's a private company Pete. No Gov id used to set up the account... So I'm not sure who surety is...?

To whom the bill was sent to ? :/

The name Eamonn O Brien I gave them over the phone...

I have sent terms and conditions to these types: 1) If it is a private agreement, provide proof of contract and I will "pay", or 2) If it is public and you believe I am surety, then provide proof, and I will "pay", or 3) if I am incorrect believing I can complete your Bill of Exchange for your presentment to the Drawee for discharge then I need a party to sign under full commercial liability of that claim and I will "pay," or 4) accept the completed Bill of Exchange enclosed. If there are any changes you require to your Bill of Exchange I require you to provide whole disclosure for the proper Administrative process, and I will be pleased to make corrections.

Any Administrations required hereafter which ignore the above terms and conditions will be subject to a Fee Schedule.

That is cool, Tommy Atherton :)

Credit to TTFL and Admin of the Person and their creators.

I take credit for the flaws! haha

:O

I received a fun letter from Telstra (phone company here in Australia)...addressed to the person, and I take administrative duties seriously.

I had initially written to them as the Sole Authorised Administrator, informing them that I did not wish to purchase the debt and requested advice on ALL methods of discharge. I gave them 30 days to respond...nothing.

So I completed their bill, sent it back registered post, along with the relevant sections of the Bills of Exchange Act, explaining why & how I had completed the bill.

I received a letter back stating that the account was overdue, and that they don't accept bills of exchange, but that they accept payment via direct debit, credit card, BPAY (electronic transfer), cheque and in person at a post office or instore.

I was quite certain that a completed Bill of Exchange was indeed a cheque, but hadn't found proof yet...until I checked the Cheques Act 1986:

First, the definition of a Bill of Exchange:

Bills of Exchange Act 1909 4. Interpretation of Terms Bill means bill of exchange.

Bills of Exchange Act 1909: 8 Bill of exchange defined (1) A bill of exchange is an unconditional order in writing, addressed by one person to another, signed by the person giving it, requiring the person to whom it is addressed to pay on demand, or at a fixed or determinable future time, a sum certain in money to or to the order of a specified person, or to bearer. (2) An instrument which does not comply with these conditions, or which orders any act to be done in addition to the payment of money, is not a bill of exchange. (3) An order to pay out of a particular fund is not unconditional within the meaning of this section; but an unqualified order to pay, coupled with: (a) an indication of a particular fund out of which the drawee is to re-imburse himself, or a particular account to be debited with the amount; or (b) a statement of the transaction which gives rise to the bill; is unconditional. (4) A bill is not invalid by reason: (a) that it is not dated; (b) that it does not specify the value given, or that any value has been given therefor; or (c) that it does not specify the place where it is drawn, or the place where it is payable.

And now, a cheque:

Cheques Act 1986: 10 Cheque defined (1) A cheque is an unconditional order in writing that: (a) is addressed by a person to another person, being a financial institution; and (b) is signed by the person giving it; and (c) requires the financial institution to pay on demand a sum certain in money. Note: In this Act, financial institution has a restricted meaning—see the definition in subsection 3(1). (2) An instrument that does not comply with subsection (1), or that orders any act to be done in addition to the payment of money, is not a cheque.

Subsection 3(1) financial institution means: (a) the Reserve Bank of Australia; or (b) a body corporate that is an ADI (authorised deposit-taking institution) for the purposes of the Banking Act 1959; or (d) a person who carries on State banking within the meaning of paragraph 51(xiii) of the Constitution; or (e) a person (other than a person referred to in paragraph (a), (b) or (d)) who carries on the business of banking outside Australia.

From these definitions, it appears that so long as we complete the Bill in accordance with the description as provided by Pete Daoust, the completed Bill is most definitely a cheque:

Here's a completed bill (in the Beverly Berta Braakschmack 'NOT MINE' style) :D

All hidden in plain sight...

FRONT:

REVERSE:

It becomes a money ORDER... a cheque is a 2-way instrument whereas an ORDER is a 3 way instrument. A cheque is a promise to pay, where an order is an ORDER TO PAY.

I will look into that further Beverly Berta Braakschmack, I'm only going on what the company says they will accept (and they don't list money order) and what the clubhouse rules define the completed bill of exchange as.

Sorry Stuart, you are right but a cheque ends up coming from your labour.

I don't think I've heard the end of this matter with the company, but will update on here as it progresses...this is an ongoing learning process for me.

"money" as defined in the Financial Administration Act, works in this order: BILLS — NOTES — BONDS

BILLS: Bills of Exchange NOTES: Promissory Note BOND: Insurance

Bills accepted are SETOFF or set-off: 3. The balancing of mutual liabilities with respect to a pledge relationship.

Promissory Note: Discharge to another time in the future (because of the bankruptcy) ie. I promise to pay... like all notes are

Bond: 2. A written promise to pay money or do some act if certain circumstances occur or a certain time elapses; a promise that is defeasible upon a condition subsequent; esp., an instrument under seal by which (1) a public officer undertakes to pay a sum of money if he or she does not faithfully discharge the responsibilities of office, or (2) a surety undertakes that if the public officer does not do so, the surety will be liable in a penal sum.

BOND IS ALREADY IN PLACE.

Scott? am I confused?

No. Your girl-brain isn't fucking you up. You are correct.

You're here!

So you need to write up an Affidavit, regarding SURETY on the matter and require a time period for response, then (if you choose) Opportunity to Cure, then get a Notary Judgement (or Notary Protest) called Judgement

We are going through the same thing with a utility company. Our plan is to write to the CEO requesting certified true copies of: 1_ The application for supply, 2_ The Contract, 3_ Full disclosure, 4_ Full accounting. On receipt of those documents, we will need to examine them thoroughly before proceeding further.

I see three parties to a check, the same as a completed bill of exchange

I see a beneficiary on a check I see a DRAWER on a check I see a DRAWEE on a check

Why do you say a cheque is a 2-way instrument whereas an ORDER is a 3 way instrument, Beverly Berta Braakschmack ?

Re Beverly Berta Braakschmack: So you need to write up an Affidavit, regarding SURETY on the matter...

I used a 'notice' deflecting surety along with the instructions, modeled on something Mackximus Minimus posted previously, with a certified copy of the Birth Certificate as supporting evidence:

If this has been pulled from the dictionary of my arse, feel free to correct me: :D

Why did you write Stuart Gregory STONE?

Also, I've been thinking about this. We keep saying slavery and indentured servitude, yet I am not sure the recipients have any idea what we are saying.

What I am saying is that submitting a 'payment' via check, money order, or credit card, as they request, would require me to ENDORSE the Federal Reserve system. It requires ME to create the medium to do the Accounting. It would also be a monopoly. What is everyone's thoughts on explaining this?

On the birth certificate it is written in that manner, so I completed the notice that way Chris Evan, as that is the format that I can demonstrate via the Birth Certificate, then added 'derivations' of the name to cover all bases.

I would think that it should read STUART GREGORY STONE. Perhaps I am not seeing it. I am thinking the way you spelled it indicates joinder

Ahhh...gotcha. Mine is in all caps

Mine...hahaha! Oops. I mean the one I can get a copy of

I'm learning that I can only comment upon what I can demonstrate from their paperwork and clubhouse rules...and it's not mine, not me & not my fault :D

Scott Duncan, why would they spell it that way?

(8) "Order" means a written instruction to pay money signed by the person giving the instruction. The instruction may be addressed to any person, including the person giving the instruction, or to one or more persons jointly or in the alternative but not in succession. An authorization to pay is not an order unless the person authorized to pay is also instructed to pay.

Well that's interesting....

:D

What Is the Difference between Certified Mail and Registered Mail?

Certified mail is a kind of mail in which you legally certify that you sent the mail. Meanwhile, registered mail is simply an obligation that the postal company will deliver it. In certain cases you need to use certified mail which is more expensive.

Mackximus brought up the fact that his brother sent some stuff CERTIFIED mail the other day, and I am wondering what's wrong with it ? :/

As I understand it, Registered Mail transfers TITLE...as it indicates there is VALUE in the envelope. Plus, it is SEALED by the Post Office. Either way, there will be evidence of Acceptance.

Am i wrong in my thinking that, as sole authorized administrator, you can administrate this bill of exchange to the government bank and send a bill to the beneficiary for the extra administration?

I like this concept for remittance advice :D ...He may be Captain Pete Daoust's Irish equivalent...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-eGifukmgQ

He's forgetting that he also signed a contract obligating him to repay x amount plus interest in a different capacity as debtor... He can worry about the promissory note after those obligations have been met... :D Or so I'm told.. :p

Has anyone in the group ever received a completed bill of exchange? I am curious about the process of presenting it to the bank of Canada.

I never done that, but I often did present a check to CIBC bank, and I am pretty sure I would use the same strategy :-D

Hypothetically speaking, could I send you a bill (to your person) for you to administrate and return to me (my person) so that I could try that?

Is this line of thinking just an exercise in futility?

I went to pay for the cable service cash, and they gave me this as the receipt. Look at the STAMP! :D "RECEIVED REMITTANCE"

What are you suggesting Mackximus Minimus, are you saying that it had already been prepared prior to your attendance and that the matter had been settled 7 days earlier, or did they just have the incorrect date on their date stamper? ;-)

I don't get what you are trying to say, Stuart Stone. :/ Sorry, please dumb it down for me.

Can you tell us more about that Pete Daoust? How did things go with CIBC?

What I see here is that the "payment voucher" is REMITTANCE, and it was sent to me, I went to pay, the acknowledge receiving REMITTANCE for such amount, on this date, and the BILL was SETTLED. I have now a RECEIPT.

Remittance

Money sent from one individual to another in the form of cash, check, or some other manner.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/remittance

The date appears to say June 10 (unless it says June 16 and I missed it), so my question was re the dates, but it appears that you are referring to the fact that it says 'RECEIVED REMITTANCE'...I misunderstood the point you were making.

Remember Scott said for us to ask for REMITTANCE? That is why I posted the coupon.

A remittance advice is a letter sent by a customer to a supplier, to inform the supplier that their invoice has been paid. If the customer is paying by cheque, the remittance advice often accompanies the cheque. The advice may consist of a literal letter (e.g., "Gentlemen: Your shipment of the 10th inst was received in good order; accompanying is our remittance of $52.47 per invoice No 83046") or of a voucher attached to the side or top of the cheque.

Remittance advices are not mandatory, however they are seen as a courtesy because they help the accounts-receivable department[4] to match invoices with payments. The remittance advice should therefore specify the invoice number(s) for which payment is tendered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittance_advice

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/rmttncvchrs-eng.html

Adrian, everytime I showed up at CIBC bank with a check, they gave me cash for it :-\

For the bank of Canada thought I posted above, I'm only curious because I am sure that someone will ask the sole authorized administrator for the person what they should do with it at some point. I wanted to know exactly what to tell them. I figured that if I went through the process myself I would know what happens on the other end.

Ok, so after thinking on this for a while, I am thinking that this line of thought is probably just a dumb exercise. This would have most likely led to frivolous bills being sent back and forth only to be administrated, and redeemed for cash from the surety of the person. Since I don't see any honor in that, and as Pete Daoust has reminded us, that is very important.

Remittance is instructions on how to pay a debt. They received your instructions to pay with cash. (I presume they exchanged it to money of account first?)

Remittance is instructions on how to ADMINISTRATE a debt

PAYING a debt = you've made the decision to BUY it.

RESULTS TIME:

Ok, I don't know if this is a success for a completed Bill of Exchange being accepted and credited to the account, or if it resulted from me being able to demonstrate that payment was sent by registered post and that I could prove it had been delivered...

Either way, the account was credited with the amount in question...the original bill and how it was completed is shown further up in this thread:

Good stuff Stuart ?

The more and more I see, the more and more I hate Massachusetts

But whatever.....

Isn't Massachusetts the lattin word for boogers?

Quebec is the perfect place for you, Chris Evan :-P

Oh??? Quebec? But I hate folks from Quebec. ALL of them!!! :-D

That is WHY you should move here :P

Pete, a lot of you FROGS come down here to Cape Cod for vacation in the summer...I met a couple FROGS last year matter of fact. You should take the family down here for a vacation!